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i definitely think i was one of the

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people who first started looking into

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those into those triangles that appeared

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in 1983.

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yeah it's something i have it's

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something that i've followed over the

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years and something i came across when i

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was doing research for my for my book

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for watching

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which i'm here discussing tonight

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yes it is yeah yeah okay

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this is new springs the watchers

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available on amazon

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thank you very much

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i was always

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tonight we have the pleasures of the

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company of neil spring who's coming from

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london he's from swansea but he's made a

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special trip tonight to see us

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um and he's going to give us a talk on

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the welsh triangle which was uh has been

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dubbed

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in 1977 as a respect of sightings in the

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pembrokeshire area

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um

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there will be a q a at the end uh and

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neil's brought his book here have you

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brought any other copies no

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they're in waterstones and online you

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can find it well basically neil started

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off um when he was in school in bishops

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done

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he didn't address the ufos and uh he

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took upon himself to

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investigate locally

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the cycling's going on at the time

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uh

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he then went away to university in

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oxford i believe yeah

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and he started a group called global

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uh yeah

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the group was called open minds open

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minds yeah and he carried on

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with his work there he did write two

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cracking articles for ufo magazine

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in 2001

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about uh spade to psycheden scene on the

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night in 1998 in the swansea area

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uh if you manage to get copies of it

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it's well worth the read

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uh he then went on to become a novelist

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he wrote and he's

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written uh

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a novel called the ghost hunters that

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was the first one is it uh gary price

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harry price harry potter ghost hunter

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and natalie the watchers which is uh

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being adapted for tv i believe isn't it

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so

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yeah

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so he's a talented guy uh with a

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background in ufos and a lot of

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knowledge uh so

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we put your hand together give neil a

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right well good evening uh ladies and

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gentlemen let's make sure you can all

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hear me at the back yeah that's all

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right good well firstly thank you very

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much emilyn and to the whole ufo sponsor

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ufo network for having me here tonight

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it's a pleasure to see so many of you

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here and i feel um very

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very welcome just in terms of what i'm

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gonna do i'm gonna run you through

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uh

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a talk which i've entitled tonight

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secrets of the welsh triangle

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but at any point anyone wants to stop me

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and ask any questions please just put up

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your hand or shout out whatever's

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easiest for you

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now i should begin by saying that i'm

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not really

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i'm not a ufo investigator i'm not a

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ufologist

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but i am a storyteller

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and i have a story to tell you tonight

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ufos

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exist

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there can be no doubt whatsoever about

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that

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they've been photographed witnessed by

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many

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investigated by hundreds of governments

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all over the world

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the second thing i'd like to you all

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please to remember tonight

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is that

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ufos have an explanation which goes far

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beyond anything to do with military

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aircraft or secret military planes or

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anything of that nature

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i don't mean that to imply that they're

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extraterrestrial

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of course that's a possibility

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but ufos have a explanation which goes

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far and beyond what the authorities

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would have you believe

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and the third thing i'd like you to

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and this one is really very important

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is that our governments

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or agencies within our governments

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do not want any of us to know that fact

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now

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i'm aware of this information

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not because i have a faith

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by that i mean a belief without any

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evidence

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this information because i hold this

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belief very strongly based on

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information that i have been privy to as

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i'm sure many of you

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have also been privy to

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and i hold this belief because many

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people

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around swansea and far beyond

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have

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spoken to me personally about their

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experiences and those experiences

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informed this book

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which and then referred to just now the

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watchers which is a fictional tale

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based on reported sightings of ufos

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in west wales

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in 1977. just out of interest

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by show of hands how many people here

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are aware of those sightings

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okay very good

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i'm going to begin by

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talking a little bit about how i came to

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this subject because i just said to you

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that i'm not a ufologist

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that's not strictly accurate in the

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sense that as emilyn said 2001 i was

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very actively involved

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in in investigating this subject but i

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didn't come to it

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from a

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a position of you know simply looking

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out there for information on ufos i

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actually came to it because i was really

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really interested in stories and there

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were two things that happened that got

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me interested in in in the wider stories

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of ufos the first was my mum's in the

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room my mum and i were in uh in a book

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shop in saint helens road

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and there was a lady in there who was

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practicing the art of dowsing over a map

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when we walked in i thought that's very

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interesting what are you doing and she

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said oh i'm trying to find somewhere for

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us to move our bookshop to

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and she said the crystal's going to tell

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us where to go

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and i said right mum sort of looked at

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me as if to say what you know she's

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going to move her business to go

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somewhere else based on a crystal

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anyway i found a spot at the back of the

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bookshop which was to do with ufos

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and i was flicking through flicking

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through a book and the lady behind the

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counter said to me

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if you are interested

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in ufos you ought to look

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at what the kids school what the kids

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saw down in broadhaven in 1940s in 1977.

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and i

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i'd never heard of anything happening

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down in pembrokeshire in 1977

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but it lodged somewhere in my mind

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separately i was

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i was fortunate enough to have a

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wonderful teacher in school who she told

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me about the day that some some boys i

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grew up in bishopston

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some boys living in bishopston had seen

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what they thought was a ufo

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on the ground

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and i said

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what do you mean just in the middle of

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the day just sitting there and she said

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to me

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they saw a landed object on the ground

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and their father one of their fathers

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was the reverend bishopston

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and he was very shaken by what his son

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had seen

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well then

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i was that's the story that hooked me

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actually so i went away

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and uh i did some research i actually

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went to the library and flipped through

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flick through

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um newspaper reports

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but i also did something else i went and

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found the boys today i found one of them

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i found andrew everson

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who lives where he did live in the males

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and andrew bo kindly

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welcomed me into his home

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and

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me was this

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on a summer's day

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and i believe it was 1977

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or it might have been a year or two

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either side of that yeah it was lastly

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the summer holidays right the last day

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of the summer holidays

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nice no stuff everybody last day of the

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summer holidays they lived

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actually very near to where i lived

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which was um

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where north bay court is now really from

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bishopston but the farmer's field was

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adjacent to the main road and andrew and

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his friends were picking blackberries on

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the hill because you have to imagine a

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sort of sloping sloping hill they were

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coming down the hill

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and they turned and they saw right at

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the bottom of the field

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a cigar shaped object

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which was to use his words the size of a

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single decker bus

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with a surface like brushed aluminium

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and a small dome on top maybe a flashing

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light

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and he said we stood there and we looked

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at this object

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and we ran

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who was initially very very skeptical

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until of course they returned to the

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spot

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and what did they find there

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but a big burn mark

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now if anyone

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has seen the original picture in the

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evening post that they took

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sure enough you can see there is a mark

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it doesn't look to me like a burn mark

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but it looks there was a mark on the

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ground and the two boys were crouching

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there on it

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i spoke to the farmer who i tracked down

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who at that time lived in merton village

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and

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the farmer confirmed to me

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that he had absolutely no idea what

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could have caused this mark

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and that

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he thought there was

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i mean he said he was very skeptical at

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the time but he said i have not been

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able to explain what they saw and it to

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him it was still a mystery and to andrew

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everson it was still a mystery and one

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thing that was a mystery to me which he

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said and lodged in my mind was

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that

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some men came

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and asked us some questions

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i also remember he said that to me

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and he didn't imply they were government

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men

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he talked about

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going to america he said there were some

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people who would come and ask him it was

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all very vague

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but i'd just like you to remember that

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because it's important for what i'm

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going to come on to talk to

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in a little bit

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after moving away from swansea uh when i

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was at university i spoke to i became

287
00:12:09,750 --> 00:12:07,680
aware of a woman who became a good

288
00:12:10,389 --> 00:12:09,760
friend of mine who i'm afraid it's no

289
00:12:13,190 --> 00:12:10,399
longer

290
00:12:15,910 --> 00:12:13,200
with us whose name is georgina bruni

291
00:12:17,750 --> 00:12:15,920
georgina bruni as many of you will know

292
00:12:19,030 --> 00:12:17,760
wrote a book called you can't tell the

293
00:12:22,150 --> 00:12:19,040
people

294
00:12:24,710 --> 00:12:22,160
and the the origin of that title

295
00:12:27,030 --> 00:12:24,720
uh came from a a dinner party that she

296
00:12:28,550 --> 00:12:27,040
was attending at which margaret thatcher

297
00:12:29,990 --> 00:12:28,560
was sitting next to her

298
00:12:31,350 --> 00:12:30,000
and you've met sure many of you have

299
00:12:33,350 --> 00:12:31,360
heard this story

300
00:12:35,030 --> 00:12:33,360
and she's she got onto the subject of

301
00:12:36,069 --> 00:12:35,040
ufos and the renders from forest

302
00:12:38,550 --> 00:12:36,079
incident

303
00:12:40,710 --> 00:12:38,560
and of course

304
00:12:42,629 --> 00:12:40,720
margaret thatcher turned to her and said

305
00:12:45,190 --> 00:12:42,639
ufos quotes

306
00:12:46,550 --> 00:12:45,200
you must have your facts and you cannot

307
00:12:48,710 --> 00:12:46,560
tell the people

308
00:12:50,310 --> 00:12:48,720
well afterwards georgina and i stayed in

309
00:12:51,350 --> 00:12:50,320
touch for some time

310
00:12:53,590 --> 00:12:51,360
and

311
00:12:55,829 --> 00:12:53,600
um again as i said it's a great shame

312
00:12:57,990 --> 00:12:55,839
that she died so young but i do believe

313
00:12:59,590 --> 00:12:58,000
that my uh georgina bruni's book on the

314
00:13:00,949 --> 00:12:59,600
rendelsome forest incident is one of the

315
00:13:02,790 --> 00:13:00,959
best books

316
00:13:04,629 --> 00:13:02,800
you can read on the subject

317
00:13:06,310 --> 00:13:04,639
and i know there's a lot of information

318
00:13:09,110 --> 00:13:06,320
that she deliberately left out of that

319
00:13:11,269 --> 00:13:09,120
book as well

320
00:13:13,829 --> 00:13:11,279
um again which i'll come back to

321
00:13:16,069 --> 00:13:13,839
a little bit later on

322
00:13:17,110 --> 00:13:16,079
but my interest was ignited from this

323
00:13:18,629 --> 00:13:17,120
point on

324
00:13:19,509 --> 00:13:18,639
and was very very

325
00:13:21,509 --> 00:13:19,519
strong

326
00:13:23,190 --> 00:13:21,519
and i have to say what happened if you

327
00:13:25,350 --> 00:13:23,200
go

328
00:13:28,710 --> 00:13:25,360
it was after meeting georgina that i

329
00:13:30,550 --> 00:13:28,720
that i began to think actually yes maybe

330
00:13:32,310 --> 00:13:30,560
maybe there is some substance in these

331
00:13:34,069 --> 00:13:32,320
claims that the government

332
00:13:36,389 --> 00:13:34,079
is not is actually taking this whole

333
00:13:40,069 --> 00:13:36,399
subject more seriously

334
00:13:41,430 --> 00:13:40,079
than any of us might suppose

335
00:13:42,870 --> 00:13:41,440
of course

336
00:13:44,790 --> 00:13:42,880
we all know when the modern wave of

337
00:13:47,350 --> 00:13:44,800
flying sources began

338
00:13:50,069 --> 00:13:47,360
which was in 1947 in the summer when

339
00:13:51,910 --> 00:13:50,079
kenneth arnold said he saw his objects

340
00:13:53,670 --> 00:13:51,920
which skipped like a source of wood

341
00:13:55,910 --> 00:13:53,680
across water

342
00:13:58,949 --> 00:13:55,920
and he told that story to the press with

343
00:14:05,430 --> 00:14:01,110
and then shortly after that

344
00:14:07,670 --> 00:14:05,440
the disc landed in roswell new mexico

345
00:14:09,910 --> 00:14:07,680
i think there could be now no doubt

346
00:14:11,829 --> 00:14:09,920
that something came down there which the

347
00:14:13,670 --> 00:14:11,839
government were not prepared to admit to

348
00:14:16,389 --> 00:14:13,680
at the time and i'm not sure how many

349
00:14:17,910 --> 00:14:16,399
people in the room take seriously any of

350
00:14:20,069 --> 00:14:17,920
the government's

351
00:14:23,269 --> 00:14:20,079
u.s government's

352
00:14:25,269 --> 00:14:23,279
recent explanations for that sighting

353
00:14:27,189 --> 00:14:25,279
they're slightly more credible than the

354
00:14:28,550 --> 00:14:27,199
ones they put out at the time

355
00:14:30,790 --> 00:14:28,560
the weather balloon

356
00:14:33,030 --> 00:14:30,800
but i i don't think a great deal more

357
00:14:34,790 --> 00:14:33,040
credible

358
00:14:38,870 --> 00:14:34,800
and then of course the great sightings

359
00:14:40,710 --> 00:14:38,880
of 1952 in washington dc

360
00:14:41,829 --> 00:14:40,720
which were basically mass sightings

361
00:14:43,829 --> 00:14:41,839
where you had

362
00:14:45,509 --> 00:14:43,839
a great number of lights seen over the

363
00:14:47,350 --> 00:14:45,519
capitol building

364
00:14:49,189 --> 00:14:47,360
if my slides were working here

365
00:14:51,670 --> 00:14:49,199
i'd be able to show you this on on the

366
00:14:54,310 --> 00:14:51,680
slide the photographs that i had but

367
00:14:55,110 --> 00:14:54,320
um what was extremely interesting to me

368
00:14:56,829 --> 00:14:55,120
though

369
00:14:59,829 --> 00:14:56,839
looking back over history over that

370
00:15:01,590 --> 00:14:59,839
period was how our government were

371
00:15:03,750 --> 00:15:01,600
looking at the subject

372
00:15:05,430 --> 00:15:03,760
and when i was doing my research for

373
00:15:07,189 --> 00:15:05,440
this book

374
00:15:09,829 --> 00:15:07,199
i came across a memo

375
00:15:12,710 --> 00:15:09,839
which is basically

376
00:15:16,310 --> 00:15:12,720
a a letter which comes from a member of

377
00:15:17,990 --> 00:15:16,320
the air force retired

378
00:15:22,629 --> 00:15:18,000
this letter is sent to the chief of the

379
00:15:24,550 --> 00:15:22,639
air staff and it begins dear sir in 1952

380
00:15:26,629 --> 00:15:24,560
i was stationed in the far east with the

381
00:15:28,870 --> 00:15:26,639
raf at a particularly large and

382
00:15:31,110 --> 00:15:28,880
important base and during one fine

383
00:15:33,350 --> 00:15:31,120
summer's day with not a cloud in sight

384
00:15:34,310 --> 00:15:33,360
nor any aircraft about or balloons or

385
00:15:36,949 --> 00:15:34,320
flares

386
00:15:39,430 --> 00:15:36,959
suddenly and in full view of everyone on

387
00:15:41,670 --> 00:15:39,440
the base we were deliberately buzzed by

388
00:15:44,949 --> 00:15:41,680
a large flying disc

389
00:15:48,629 --> 00:15:44,959
which glowed red on the trailing edge as

390
00:15:53,189 --> 00:15:48,639
it made several passes over our base

391
00:15:55,829 --> 00:15:53,199
which house our vampire meteor aircraft

392
00:15:58,550 --> 00:15:55,839
i go he goes on it made a loud buzzing

393
00:16:00,629 --> 00:15:58,560
sound as it shot about

394
00:16:02,550 --> 00:16:00,639
the disc was in the area for about three

395
00:16:05,430 --> 00:16:02,560
minutes before it shot

396
00:16:09,670 --> 00:16:05,440
straight up to the zenith at a speed our

397
00:16:11,269 --> 00:16:09,680
radar chaps estimated to be about 600

398
00:16:14,389 --> 00:16:11,279
knots

399
00:16:17,509 --> 00:16:14,399
we were told not to write home about it

400
00:16:19,590 --> 00:16:17,519
or to talk about it to outsiders

401
00:16:23,030 --> 00:16:19,600
but we were all well aware that we had

402
00:16:25,350 --> 00:16:23,040
seen something of great importance

403
00:16:27,350 --> 00:16:25,360
and that governments are aware that

404
00:16:29,749 --> 00:16:27,360
these things are not coming from outer

405
00:16:34,949 --> 00:16:29,759
space other galaxies either but

406
00:16:40,310 --> 00:16:37,430
anyway he finishes and says can you

407
00:16:42,949 --> 00:16:40,320
please tell me who decides on the mod

408
00:16:46,389 --> 00:16:42,959
there is no danger to our defenses and

409
00:16:48,310 --> 00:16:46,399
how do you investigate it

410
00:16:51,110 --> 00:16:48,320
who indeed

411
00:16:53,829 --> 00:16:51,120
well of course that question as to where

412
00:16:55,910 --> 00:16:53,839
these things come from kept being asked

413
00:16:57,749 --> 00:16:55,920
and the same year

414
00:16:59,030 --> 00:16:57,759
winston churchill sent his famous memo

415
00:17:00,629 --> 00:16:59,040
what does all this stuff about flying

416
00:17:02,069 --> 00:17:00,639
saucers amount to what can it mean and

417
00:17:03,910 --> 00:17:02,079
what is the truth

418
00:17:05,750 --> 00:17:03,920
somebody let me have a report and indeed

419
00:17:07,590 --> 00:17:05,760
they did and we all know

420
00:17:10,069 --> 00:17:07,600
i assume most of you know

421
00:17:12,630 --> 00:17:10,079
that he was basically fobbed off

422
00:17:13,669 --> 00:17:12,640
by the mod

423
00:17:15,669 --> 00:17:13,679
well then

424
00:17:17,590 --> 00:17:15,679
we're lucky because there were people in

425
00:17:20,710 --> 00:17:17,600
the defense establishment who weren't

426
00:17:21,590 --> 00:17:20,720
prepared to be fobbed off

427
00:17:23,909 --> 00:17:21,600
and

428
00:17:25,669 --> 00:17:23,919
the admiral of the fleet

429
00:17:26,789 --> 00:17:25,679
is one of those people led the great

430
00:17:32,630 --> 00:17:26,799
britain

431
00:17:34,789 --> 00:17:32,640
as we're all aware went on record was a

432
00:17:36,470 --> 00:17:34,799
very very impressive ufo sighting and

433
00:17:39,110 --> 00:17:36,480
indeed until the day he died was

434
00:17:40,630 --> 00:17:39,120
assisting georgina bruni in looking into

435
00:17:43,830 --> 00:17:40,640
the incidents around the renders and

436
00:17:46,070 --> 00:17:43,840
forest of december 1980

437
00:17:50,150 --> 00:17:46,080
that case is one i'm just assuming most

438
00:17:52,230 --> 00:17:50,160
of you are here are very well aware of

439
00:17:53,990 --> 00:17:52,240
how many of you have heard of the

440
00:17:56,390 --> 00:17:54,000
the condyne report

441
00:17:57,430 --> 00:17:56,400
from the mod yes

442
00:18:00,630 --> 00:17:57,440
so

443
00:18:03,669 --> 00:18:00,640
it's worth reflecting that although the

444
00:18:04,549 --> 00:18:03,679
mod were very very happy

445
00:18:07,110 --> 00:18:04,559
to

446
00:18:10,150 --> 00:18:07,120
not talk about the december 1980

447
00:18:12,470 --> 00:18:10,160
incident in randalson forest where craft

448
00:18:14,710 --> 00:18:12,480
apparently landed in the woods next to

449
00:18:16,390 --> 00:18:14,720
the twin air bases raf woodbridge and

450
00:18:17,990 --> 00:18:16,400
raf bent waters

451
00:18:19,510 --> 00:18:18,000
it's worth noting that the mod were

452
00:18:22,310 --> 00:18:19,520
quite happy to

453
00:18:23,909 --> 00:18:22,320
sweep all this under the carpet

454
00:18:27,350 --> 00:18:23,919
but nick pope

455
00:18:29,510 --> 00:18:27,360
and many other researchers in the field

456
00:18:31,590 --> 00:18:29,520
have since spoken to this very

457
00:18:35,110 --> 00:18:31,600
insightful document which was entitled

458
00:18:36,950 --> 00:18:35,120
unidentified aerial phenomena in the uk

459
00:18:40,390 --> 00:18:36,960
this is now in the public domain by the

460
00:18:42,870 --> 00:18:40,400
way and all of you can go and look it up

461
00:18:45,029 --> 00:18:42,880
this declassified report

462
00:18:46,789 --> 00:18:45,039
which was conducted by britain's defense

463
00:18:47,909 --> 00:18:46,799
intelligence staff

464
00:18:51,590 --> 00:18:47,919
concludes

465
00:18:52,789 --> 00:18:51,600
the uap unidentified aerial phenomena do

466
00:18:55,430 --> 00:18:52,799
exist

467
00:18:58,310 --> 00:18:55,440
it concludes that that's indisputable

468
00:19:00,470 --> 00:18:58,320
and that these crafts clearly sorry it

469
00:19:03,029 --> 00:19:00,480
doesn't use the word craft but and that

470
00:19:05,190 --> 00:19:03,039
these phenomena clearly exhibit

471
00:19:08,070 --> 00:19:05,200
characteristics that are quote well

472
00:19:10,789 --> 00:19:08,080
beyond any of those aircraft under any

473
00:19:12,789 --> 00:19:10,799
aircraft or missile now what's

474
00:19:14,150 --> 00:19:12,799
interesting about this report there are

475
00:19:17,750 --> 00:19:14,160
three things interesting about it the

476
00:19:20,310 --> 00:19:17,760
first is that it's classified uk secret

477
00:19:22,070 --> 00:19:20,320
eyes only so if there's nothing in the

478
00:19:25,430 --> 00:19:22,080
ufo phenomenon

479
00:19:28,230 --> 00:19:25,440
why is our government creating reports

480
00:19:30,470 --> 00:19:28,240
entitled on the subject incred entitled

481
00:19:32,549 --> 00:19:30,480
uk secret eyes only the second

482
00:19:36,230 --> 00:19:32,559
interesting thing about it is that there

483
00:19:37,830 --> 00:19:36,240
were only 11 copies of it made which uh

484
00:19:40,070 --> 00:19:37,840
implies that it was a document

485
00:19:42,390 --> 00:19:40,080
considered to be of some sensitivity and

486
00:19:44,470 --> 00:19:42,400
the third most important thing about it

487
00:19:47,750 --> 00:19:44,480
is that it was conducted by

488
00:19:50,710 --> 00:19:47,760
the defense intelligence staff

489
00:19:52,470 --> 00:19:50,720
all of these things have

490
00:19:53,830 --> 00:19:52,480
implications i think

491
00:19:55,750 --> 00:19:53,840
that point to

492
00:19:57,909 --> 00:19:55,760
the conclusion i outlined at the

493
00:19:59,830 --> 00:19:57,919
beginning which is that our government

494
00:20:02,710 --> 00:19:59,840
take this subject far more seriously

495
00:20:04,830 --> 00:20:02,720
than they are willing to admit to on the

496
00:20:06,630 --> 00:20:04,840
face of it

497
00:20:08,470 --> 00:20:06,640
and

498
00:20:09,669 --> 00:20:08,480
i have to tell you

499
00:20:10,710 --> 00:20:09,679
when i

500
00:20:13,350 --> 00:20:10,720
became

501
00:20:16,310 --> 00:20:13,360
aware of the sightings in west wales of

502
00:20:19,110 --> 00:20:16,320
1977

503
00:20:21,590 --> 00:20:19,120
a question at the top of my mind

504
00:20:24,070 --> 00:20:21,600
was how seriously

505
00:20:26,470 --> 00:20:24,080
did the military and the government take

506
00:20:31,350 --> 00:20:26,480
those sightings

507
00:20:33,430 --> 00:20:31,360
throughout the winter at 77 and into the

508
00:20:35,750 --> 00:20:33,440
summer

509
00:20:37,750 --> 00:20:35,760
occurred within an extremely sensitive

510
00:20:40,230 --> 00:20:37,760
geographical area

511
00:20:42,310 --> 00:20:40,240
militarily speaking

512
00:20:45,190 --> 00:20:42,320
not only did they occur within close

513
00:20:46,390 --> 00:20:45,200
proximity to a missile testing

514
00:20:49,590 --> 00:20:46,400
range

515
00:20:52,149 --> 00:20:49,600
and to a very secret u.s naval station

516
00:20:53,510 --> 00:20:52,159
positioned on the perimeters of raf

517
00:20:56,870 --> 00:20:53,520
broady

518
00:20:58,470 --> 00:20:56,880
overlooking saint bride's bay

519
00:21:00,390 --> 00:20:58,480
but they occurred

520
00:21:02,630 --> 00:21:00,400
within

521
00:21:03,830 --> 00:21:02,640
you know a pretty populated area this

522
00:21:06,710 --> 00:21:03,840
community

523
00:21:08,230 --> 00:21:06,720
would have something to worry about

524
00:21:10,070 --> 00:21:08,240
if they thought that there were secret

525
00:21:12,390 --> 00:21:10,080
military aircraft

526
00:21:14,230 --> 00:21:12,400
being tested and possibly landed in

527
00:21:16,149 --> 00:21:14,240
their fields and pasture lands as many

528
00:21:18,549 --> 00:21:16,159
of the many of the witnesses living in

529
00:21:20,870 --> 00:21:18,559
that area

530
00:21:21,909 --> 00:21:20,880
claimed to see

531
00:21:24,070 --> 00:21:21,919
so